Interview with KNMV national coach Marcel Hartman
In contrast to his football colleague Dick Advocaat, Marcel Hartman (45), the motocross national coach of the KNMV, usually works in the shadows. Hartman is mainly concerned with youth training. In addition, he is also the general sporting director for motocross within the KNMV. In this capacity he is also responsible for the selection of the Dutch MX of Nations and European Motocross of Nations teams. Marcel was also closely involved in the MXGP Rookies project from the KNMV. MXMag sat down with the Gelderlander for a fascinating conversation about talent development, Dutch youth, motocross culture and much more.
Introduce yourself to people who don't know you (yet)?
Marcel Hartman: “I have been riding motocross since I was 8, and when I was 11 I rode my first race at the KNMV in the 80cc. Between 1990 and 2005 I rode as a senior/Inter both at home and abroad. I have built up 24 years of competition experience this way. From youth up to and including ONK, European Championships and World Championships. At the end of the 90s I obtained my trainer's diploma (youth motorsport trainer) and since 2004 I have focused more intensively on providing MX training, both to novice riders and drivers of international level. I had been working for the KNMV for a while as a trainer for the selection in the Central district and as a trainer/supervisor of Dutch riders at World Cup and European Championship competitions. Since October 2012 I have been appointed as KNMV national motocross coach.”
How do you end up in the Dutch selection?
Hartman: “Some changes have been made since 2014. We work with a scouting program at the end of the year. For example, we organize several scouting days where people of all levels can come forward. Then the selection is based on driving technique. We will also be completing a separate program with the drivers. Through defense, riders are tested in other areas: physical tests, strength, flexibility, you name it. There are two layers in the selection. The first is the 'International selection' with boys who are mainly active in the European Championship. Below this there is a somewhat broader group that we call the 'National selection'. That group also includes Dutch youth who choose not to ride internationally, because not everyone has that option. We also want to offer certain support to boys who want to improve in our own competition.”
Who is in the International selection this year?
Hartman: “Brian van der Klij, Raf Meuwissen and Raivo Dankers in the EMX125. And then there is Marcel Conijn in the EMX250.”
What do you think of the performance so far?
Hartman: “In general it is rather disappointing. They are not where we think they should be. The competition is close together and it is all about details. Fortunately, we sometimes see that there is certainly something in it, as Raivo Dankers showed in the second heat in Ernée in which he finished 9th. Ottobiano was also positive, both for Raivo and Raf Meuwissen. We think there is more to it… But you are only as good as your last result!”
Who do you think has the greatest potential in that group?
Hartman: “They all have potential otherwise we wouldn't have started working on them, but that has to do with many factors. In terms of performance, this is basically Raivo. But we don't want to focus too much on one driver because he still has many steps to take.”
Why are Dutch youth less involved in international competitions? This does not only have to do with experience on hard or sand tracks.
Hartman: "Beats. The international riders participate in competitions at three levels: the ONK, the Dutch Masters of Motocross and the EMX125. Things are going really well in the ONK races because they are racing against guys they know well. And they are also very familiar with the circuits. At the Dutch Masters there is already more influence from abroad, which makes it more exciting. And the EMX is completely exciting, at least in their experience. While the game remains the same; a starting gate drops and you have to drive as fast as possible until you reach the finish. So it also has to do with how you look at it and how you deal with that pressure.”
So dealing with (their own) expectations is a very important element?
Hartman: “Certainly, we work with those boys every week and we also know what they can do in training. That is not yet what we see at the highest level.”
Does it play a role that those EMX competitions no longer take place away from the spotlight as they used to? Now the EMX125 and EMX250 ride during a GP weekend, with more interest from the media and the public, in front of the GP team managers and sponsors.
Hartman: “Well, the differences are also becoming very small between drivers. You see that in almost all sports. Everything that happens around, dealing with risks, with all kinds of interests, that becomes more important. Some people deal with this more easily than others. We look at where each driver stands in various areas. There is motorcycling, are you technically good enough? If you don't have the technology that allows you to go faster, you will run into this sooner rather than later. Then you have the physical aspect, nutrition, sleeping and everything that goes with it. That's not a simple three-piece puzzle! On the contrary, it is very complex and all those particles have to end up in the right place. With one you have to emphasize the technical aspects of driving, with the other you have to bring the physical skills up to standard and then you can continue to build. If you give boys of 14, 15 or 16 ten things at the same time, they get quite confused.”
This probably also means that it sometimes takes time to see the effects of such intensive guidance. For example in the case of the riders who participated in the MXGP Rookies. Can we say that they will also reap the benefits of this in the longer term than what we see now?
Hartman: “MXGP Rookies was a pilot project for motocross. In other sports it has long been established to be active in this way every day at Sports Center Papendal. We hope that this approach will also have results for our sport. Only you see that it also has its limitations. This pilot project lasted four months. The riders then return to their home situation. Then as a supervisor you have less guidance. Then there are many other people who exert influence. At such a moment you see changes coming again. What was built up nicely during the winter will not be continued. That's just the situation. We can't change that quickly, quickly. Although we are working hard to create such intensive guidance. After all, it is also important for young motor athletes to work in such a thorough manner week in, week out. Fortunately, in the Netherlands there is support from NOC-NSF (ed., Dutch Olympic Committee, Dutch Sports Federation). We are also increasingly given the opportunity to use facilities such as Papendal. In addition, there has been some evolution in motocross culture. Many people think it is simple, just give it gas. With the boys who completed the MXGP Rookies trajectory, we were at least able to show what it means to be involved in your sport as a top athlete. This has not yet penetrated motocross. I put it simply: a run during the week for physical fitness and laps on the motorcycle to work on riding technique. Then it should be enough! You see that it is changing because the competitions are getting tougher, both in MXGP, MX2 and EMX.”
Has the Dutch youth become weaker or has international competition become stronger?
Hartman: “I think you should put the two together. The youth come from a different pattern, but you also see this in other European countries. Then you have guys who pick it up early: 'If I want to achieve this, I have to do that.' Then it is a conscious choice. How do you want to be involved in your sport?”
It strikes me that in the Netherlands there has been more commitment from parents to participate in the European Championships for a number of years. Especially compared to Belgium.
Hartman: “We also try to introduce this in a timely manner in our youth training. With all due respect, this does not only mean competing in national competitions. That is not enough. We also try to prepare people for this if they have international ambitions. Then you also have to take the right steps in time. Watching a match and realizing that it is going fast is something different from knowing why it is going so fast. And it must also be financially possible, through the support of teams or sponsors. Up to and including 125cc you could still do it yourself. Especially from the EMX250 onwards, the material becomes so important that it is almost impossible for purely private purposes.”
In more structured teams there is often a physical supervisor or coach. Doesn't that create conflict with your role?
Hartman: “We are trying to find cooperation in this. Our program is very intensive for the international riders, so it is difficult to do much besides it. But it is certainly a point for the future to strengthen each other.”
Some federations choose to focus heavily on one or two talents. Others see it mainly as support that should also be broader.
Hartman: “That is a classic question in top sports policy. Are we going to focus all attention and resources on one or two drivers with the greatest potential? Or are we going to support a larger group of riders? That is a choice you have to make as an association. And not even just as an individual federation. You also see this consideration in various countries in their sports policy in general. There is of course a big difference between angling in a very large pond or using certain procedures to estimate which 3 or 4 riders you will focus on. Moreover, it also depends on what your goals are as an organization. Our ambition is to prepare drivers so that they can be picked up by major teams. There are also more people there to help with their guidance. However, if we can still support such a person who is in a professional team, we will not hesitate to do so.”
Success has many fathers, but there are riders from the KNMV training that you are particularly proud of. Where there was a clear contribution to the later career?
Hartman: “It is difficult to estimate how much it has brought someone. On the other hand, it is true that all current Dutch drivers at the highest level, I am talking about Jeffrey Herlings, Glenn Coldenhoff, Brian Bogers, Davy Pootjes, Micha-Boy De Waal, Freek van der Vlist... They all have at least one or participated in the KNMV selection for several years. They all took something away from that training. For one it would have been 10%, for the other 25%.”
In the GPs, the Netherlands is experiencing a boom with strong riders in the MXGP and MX2, last year a second place in the MX of Nations. That must create momentum?
Hartman: “Of course that is part of it. If you have good examples at a high level in your own country, hopefully the youth will look up to them and be inspired by them! The youth academy is then there to ensure that there is follow-up. In terms of age, we have GP riders who can still compete for a while. But behind that we would like to see high-level drivers again. There is now a gap in the EMX250 because all the guys who were in it, like Bas Vaessen and so on, are now in the GPs. So we have to provide substance for this and that will not happen automatically! If there are top players, it will be easier to work for youth training than if there is no one. We have also seen this at home in the road race. A few years ago they no longer received subsidies from the NOC-NSF because there were no achievements. From the KNMV they have indicated: 'Please note, we think that some men are coming again.' You will then receive the answer: 'Yes, but not at the moment.' Since last year there has been renewed support due to Michael's performance. van der Mark (ed. World Superbike Championship) and Bo Bendsneyder.”
Training alone is not the silver lining either. No matter how well thought out and professional the work within a program is.
Hartman: “There are indeed never any guarantees. I know what some GP riders are struggling with now, while it was explained to them years ago as a member of the Dutch selection that they had to make adjustments. Then it wasn't grabbed. Years later they still have to work on that and that is quite a change. So it really depends on how they handle it. This also underlines the importance of the environment for a top athlete. Working daily on your sport in combination with school is actually the approach that seems best to us. That's how it works for other young top athletes.”
Best practice, in other words the methods and techniques that work best, are slowly becoming accepted in motocross. Many people are not open to learning or they shoot for the messenger instead of the message.
Hartman: “Many choices made by or for young motocross riders are indeed not in their own interests. As soon as someone achieves success locally, you notice that it becomes important to keep such a young sportsman 'happy'. You see that very often in motocross, and not just in the Netherlands. Such a child is then labeled 'talent' stuck on. He gets his cups, a piece in the newspaper. So he thinks: 'I'm the boy!' Everyone at home is of course very proud of their son: 'Did you see that, that's our son?' The little one wants a new bicycle because the old one can no longer do that. Hupakee, you're getting a new bike. That new Oakley is also nice to keep him satisfied. That kind of behavior doesn't help prepare you for the real thing. If you start driving in Europe, nothing will go smoothly because there is war here! Then suddenly having to drive for 20th place is difficult to accept. Both for the driver and for his family.”
Totally agree, mentality is everything. On the other hand, you may have a rider who has the right attitude and sporting potential, but he does not have the budget to ride at European Championship level for a whole year. That also requires the right choices.
Hartman: “Certainly, then you have to be honest about that. Unfortunately, you do come across people who have crossed over everything. But did they spend their budget wisely? What good is an engine that is absolutely top if the driver is not ready for it yet? What are the missing links to take the rider himself to the next level? We try to make that clear, but to be honest, that message often does not get through. Like talking to a wall. The result is that people do not plan well with their budget. If you know that you will be riding EMX next year, you can prepare for it now. If you know that the engine has to be good, then you have the opportunity to invest a little in it.”
What makes this job so special for you personally?
Hartman: “Sport is always exciting and challenging. Sometimes you think: 'How is it possible that it still works and that results are achieved. And vice versa, it can sometimes be disappointing just when you really expect it. The best part for me is still that I can share my knowledge and skills - which I have collected with great shame and shame. Cross racing is simply a passion and that runs very deep. If I can save someone else from making the same mistakes I did then that is satisfying.”
Last but not least, what should people do who are interested in participating in the next MXGP Rookie project?
Hartman: “Then they should definitely contact us. You can do this via your email sport@knmv.nl or by phone +31 26 3528511 . "
Fine! thank you for your time Marcel and good luck for the rest of the season.
Hartman: “You're welcome, we are on the right track!”
Anyone who is on Twitter can follow Marcel via @MXTalentKNMV
Photos: Bavo, Jarno Schurgers, Ray Archer
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